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la_depressionada

i hate children! o o i meant i hate children in restaurants -- the sniveling whining little louts. i also loathe the parents who try to reason with them as though they were talking to michel de montaigne or something. good parents should fucking stay home and barbecue and eat cheetoes or whatever.

and i most emphatically believe they and their ever ballooning strollers and apparatus should be banned from manhattan altogether.

JL

Restaurants aside, I've always taken a certain pleasure in the sign at the entrance to the Frick Collection stating that children under ten are not allowed inside. I think even older kids have to be accompanied by an adult. Let 'em go to the Met, or a Chuck E. Cheese's, as the case may be. OK, I don't quite mean that, nor are the two exactly equivalent. But yes, a little extra effort goes a long way.

To go to a different extreme, I once attended a matinee of The Jungle Book with a friend who, when a child began crying in the theater, yelled at the mother, "Lady! Lose the brat!" His expectations were just a little out of proportion.

punisher

"...a bit of understanding on both sides would go a long way."

I think the Fesser's right on with this. I would add, though, that the first understanding has to be by the parent, of their kid.

Some two year olds can do the "inside voices" thing without a problem. Some kids can only do it within a two hour window after a nap and a box of juicy-juice. Parents need to know what their kids can tolerate and within what parameters.

Ms. Miller is being intentionally dense and missing the point when she says: "...see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

Noone's asking for them to be quiet every minute, just for the minutes when they're in the restaurant. To take a kid to a place where it is almost certain that they're going to be disruptive is unfair to everyone involved.

There are situations where there's no alternative, and the kid has to be brought to a place where it'll be hard for them to sustain appropriate behavior. Latte at "A Taste of Heaven" will not often fit into this category.

mzn

Pirate's Booty is yum, but Veggie Booty is even better. It's rice and corn puffs coated in a fine film of kale and spinach powder. If it had been invented by an avant-garde chef it might warrant a full page photo in the Times' living magazine. There's a whole line of booty products. Anyone tried Girlfriend Booty? I'm not making this shit up.

As for la_d's strollers, the ones in Manhattan are all very light and compact by comparison with those in the rest of the world.

mzn

Pirate's Booty is yum, but Veggie Booty is even better. It's rice and corn puffs coated in a fine film of kale and spinach powder. If it had been invented by an avant-garde chef it might warrant a full page photo in the Times' living magazine. There's a whole line of booty products. Anyone tried Girlfriend Booty? I'm not making this shit up.

As for la_d's strollers, the ones in Manhattan are all very light and compact by comparison with those in the rest of the world.

la_depressionada

the reason miller is dense is because she is completely oblivious to the fact that we have not taken on the task of suppressing toddlers and therefore never have to do it no sympathize with her beleaguered effords to do so, not even to mollify her (and i particularly hate working mothers who demand this) sense of entitlement.

you may love to see me responsible for 3 children ms miller, but just because i have wisely chosen not to does not mean it is my moral obligation to subsidize your decision to do so. in other words: you made your bed now lie in it you dumb bitch.

as for the size of strollers -- i've never noticed particularly the size of strollers in paris or rome. i have noticed that children go to restaurants there with little to do (although even i draw the line a 5-year-old's postprandial marlboro). i have never been to cincinatti so i have no idea what they are building in the middle of the country.

la_depressionada

o can you tell this is a hot button issue for me, i sound retarded. that first line should read:

the reason miller is dense is because she is completely oblivious to the fact that we have not taken on the task of suppressing toddlers and therefore never have to do it nor sympathize with her beleaguered efforts to do so, not even to mollify her (and i particularly hate working mothers who demand this) sense of entitlement.

Rose's Lime

The next thing you know the parents of toddlers will be asking for special rights! Tax breaks (nay progressive tax breaks for multiple children), free schooling, etc. Where will it all end!

Though Miller does sound a bit nasal in her complaint, it's not polite to tell other people how to behave - parent or child - but we all should seek some courtesy. I think the "Children of all ages" sign at a taste of heaven would be better worded "Patrons should use their inside voice".

Similarly, parents know that even the best child is one dropped french fry away from a Veruca Salt. You don't try to take their kids to the fricken Frick. My rule is anyplace I'd feel comfortable getting a little loud, unruly and sloppy myself is a safe place to take kids. Punisher got it right for once. And if Ms. Miller's brood is being disruptive you can ask them to take it outside. But if you don't want to run the risk of running into Ms. Millers, stay the fuck out of Tribecca before 5:00PM. Joe Jr's too.

As for Stroller embiggenment, there I agree with LaD that even though they don't guzzle gas, they're hazardous to the environment. Courteous parents should get a bike lock and leave them outside.

Rose's Lime

Also, if we ban children from Manhattan, can we ban under-employed assistant publishers from Brooklyn?

Punisher

RL: "Punisher got it right for once."

Not sure what that's about, but ouch.

la_depressionada

listen, as far as i'm concerned you can ban anyone under 35 and white from the greater metropolitan area (particularly if they're from some godforsaken suburb somewhere).

la_depressionada

listen, as far as i'm concerned you can ban anyone under 35 and white from the greater metropolitan area (particularly if they're from some godforsaken suburb somewhere).

Skeen

As usual with NYT "trend" pieces, this one is very unjournalistic and meant to hit buttons and meant to sell papers. (Surely you all remember the one about ivy league women who planned to be stay-at-home moms?)

This piece purposely chooses to overdramatize and polarize a set of circumstances that run a far more graduated spectrum and that hardly represent, say, the zeitgeist of 2005 or whatever the NYT would have you believe. I mean, gee, "kids in public places." If it's an "issue" then it's one that allways has been with us, always will be with us. (You all were once a toddler in a restaurant, too.)

Yeah, loud, rude children and their demanding, rude parents are annoying. You know what, loud, rude human beings are annoying too. Where are the signs in restaurants (and elsewhere) banning boorish cellphone use, loud talkers, inappropriate conversations held in public spaces, everyday carelessness and discourtesy, etc.? Where are the NYT articles deploring that "trend"? (Or, sorry -- is that what Metropolitan Diary is for?)

Skeen

Oh, and Manhattan strollers used to be light and compact back in the days when Manhattanite families actually had to navigate the damn things themselves (and fold them and unfold them) AND relied on public transportation. Now Manhattanite families let their nannies wrestle with the Bugaboo and/or throw the thing into the back of the Navigator or Cayenne. Has anyone EVER seen a Bugaboo folded or taken onto a bus?

sac

La D mentioned something I noticed in Europe, and that is that kids are taken EVERYWHERE. To nice restaurants, to bars, to museums, to concerts, to bullfights. And they are expected to behave and they do, generally. I never saw a tantrum or even an admonished child because there was no need.

Here in the US, there are two reasons why this is not the case:

1. Over-indulgent parents

2. Intolerant attitudes towards children

So both sides are to blame, as usual. We take our kids almost everywhere, bars and very fancy restaurants being the exceptions, although there was a bar we used to frequent for Sunday afternoon mojitos (hey, this is when they were cool) that welcomed children. If one of the kids gets unruly the first time and we get funny looks, then those people get the deathrays right back, because fuck them, you're in a public place. If the kid(s) continue to act up, one of us takes the offending offspring outside. End of story. That is the solution.

sac

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Jesus, Raquel Welch was hot.

DoubleMan

is hot

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